Bible and only Bible as word of God

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Rafka
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Rafka »

Mablak wrote:
Rafka wrote:I encourage You all to watch this great testimony prof. Veith, who witnessed Christ in his life!
I encourage You to read Biblie and search God, cause that's the only way to be saved and live forever in Gods Kingdom
Christ said: "I am the way, the truth, the life..." Jn 14,6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE2OXEZg8pE
Rafka, this guy is peddling complete and utter bullshit. At around 15:00 when he's talking about his father witnessing paranormal activity, where is the slightest bit of evidence these events actually occurred? He talks about dishes flying on their own, why has no such event ever been recorded by any camera? Where is the evidence for this alleged exorcism he's talking about? You would have to be incredibly gullible to believe such outrageous claims entirely on someone's word. There are people who would attest to UFOs being real, people who would attest to Zeus being real, the gods of Shintoism being real, the Hindu god Brahman being real, etc. If you believe this man's testimony, then you have to believe all these testimonies as well.

He claims that prayer works, but he has no evidence to back it up. On the other hand, there is a lot of evidence that prayer doesn't work. Look at the enormous STEP study from 2006. It examined the effects of prayer on 1,800 coronary artery bypass surgery patients, and found that prayer had no effect, and at best had a slightly negative effect, on the outcomes of the surgeries.

And evolution is a fact, there is no debate about it in the scientific community. We can literally see populations of fruit flies become different species; that is evolution occurring. At around 57:00 he's describing a problem that is not actually a problem; a previous version of a textbook didn't have information on whale evolution, a new version accumulated more recent research, and did gain that information, that's what you would expect. Any time he actually gets into the specifics of what's 'wrong' with evolution, his reasons are absolutely ridiculous. You can see a picture of whale evolution here:

Image

lol it's bullshit, of course pray work but there are some conditions to make, and btw. evolution is total bull, id U really believe in this, U should know that theory wasn't proved and never won't, farther more - it was proved that it's bull, so....what can I say, read Bible Mak, U will know that You're wrong :)
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Kayz
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Kayz »

Right some bearded old invisible man sitting on a smiling cloud created 2 people out of dirt. Btw if Adam and Eve indeed were the first humans, how did they create all mankind? Talking about incest? :) I know there are things in the world nobody can explain, but creating a god as excuse is not the best thing to do in my opinion. Still, everyone can believe what they want, if it's allah, the christian god, xenu or a flying spaghetti monster, but being missionary is just lame, Rafka. I know also many people who think the bible is bullshit because it's just an old fairytaile written and its contents mostly delivered by mouth, but still believe in god, I don't mind. People always invented religion in their history to explain things they could not, I bet the first humans shat their pants when a lightning bolt set a tree on fire, so the first thunder god was born. All in all all religions are the same, though I might get killed for saying that out loud in some arab country :). Just keep your religion to yourself, I don't tell nobody to not believe either. And btw. evolution happened and still happens, for example orangutans are over 97% genetically different from us and just a different branch.. and don't say stuff like "god planted fossils to test our faith" (yes I indeed saw that statement somewhere, haha)
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Const
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Const »

and what about gods monkey patches :O ?

religions allmost got same storys about sum1 like jesus and maria just different names btw
Mablak
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Mablak »

Rafka wrote:
Mablak wrote:
Rafka wrote:I encourage You all to watch this great testimony prof. Veith, who witnessed Christ in his life!
I encourage You to read Biblie and search God, cause that's the only way to be saved and live forever in Gods Kingdom
Christ said: "I am the way, the truth, the life..." Jn 14,6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE2OXEZg8pE
Rafka, this guy is peddling complete and utter bullshit. At around 15:00 when he's talking about his father witnessing paranormal activity, where is the slightest bit of evidence these events actually occurred? He talks about dishes flying on their own, why has no such event ever been recorded by any camera? Where is the evidence for this alleged exorcism he's talking about? You would have to be incredibly gullible to believe such outrageous claims entirely on someone's word. There are people who would attest to UFOs being real, people who would attest to Zeus being real, the gods of Shintoism being real, the Hindu god Brahman being real, etc. If you believe this man's testimony, then you have to believe all these testimonies as well.

He claims that prayer works, but he has no evidence to back it up. On the other hand, there is a lot of evidence that prayer doesn't work. Look at the enormous STEP study from 2006. It examined the effects of prayer on 1,800 coronary artery bypass surgery patients, and found that prayer had no effect, and at best had a slightly negative effect, on the outcomes of the surgeries.

And evolution is a fact, there is no debate about it in the scientific community. We can literally see populations of fruit flies become different species; that is evolution occurring. At around 57:00 he's describing a problem that is not actually a problem; a previous version of a textbook didn't have information on whale evolution, a new version accumulated more recent research, and did gain that information, that's what you would expect. Any time he actually gets into the specifics of what's 'wrong' with evolution, his reasons are absolutely ridiculous. You can see a picture of whale evolution here:

Image

lol it's bullshit, of course pray work but there are some conditions to make, and btw. evolution is total bull, id U really believe in this, U should know that theory wasn't proved and never won't, farther more - it was proved that it's bull, so....what can I say, read Bible Mak, U will know that You're wrong :)
Show me a single instance of prayer conclusively working, in a way that couldn't easily be explained by biology, chemistry, and physics.

Evolution has been proven. As I said, we can literally see animals evolving in real time, that is evolution, it is a fact. Can you present a single, solitary objection to it? I've read the Bible, and it's one of the most genocidal and immoral books ever written. But you first have to demonstrate that a god exists, and that the Bible relates to the word of god, for anyone to care about what the Bible says.
Const
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Const »

science chemistry and biologie is godly if u a sk religios people..
but to end this sensless discussion in wich no1 lols about my MONKEY PATCH joke :cry:
mab can u prove that there is no god ?
Mablak
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Mablak »

Const wrote:science chemistry and biologie is godly if u a sk religios people..
but to end this sensless discussion in wich no1 lols about my MONKEY PATCH joke :cry:
mab can u prove that there is no god ?
That's not actually the argument, the argument is simply that the arguments commonly presented for believing in god are all either invalid, unsound, or both.

However, you can easily prove there are no gods possessing all three traits of omniscience, omnipotence, and omnibenevolence, like Yahweh or Allah, because these traits are contradictory given the evidence. The following is the general argument I would use, from the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

(1) If God is omnipotent, he would be able to prevent all of the evil and suffering in the world.
(2) If God is omniscient, he would know about all of the evil and suffering in the world and would know how to eliminate or prevent it.
(3) If God is perfectly good, he would want to prevent all of the evil and suffering in the world.
(4) If God knows about all of the evil and suffering in the world, knows how to eliminate or prevent it, is powerful enough to prevent it, and yet does not prevent it, he must not be perfectly good.
(5) If God knows about all of the evil and suffering, knows how to eliminate or prevent it, wants to prevent it, and yet does not do so, he must not be all-powerful.
(6) If God is powerful enough to prevent all of the evil and suffering, wants to do so, and yet does not, he must not know about all of the suffering or know how to eliminate or prevent it—that is, he must not be all-knowing.
(7) If evil and suffering exist, then God is either not omnipotent, not omniscient, or not perfectly good.

And since evil and suffering clearly do exist, we get the conclusion:

(8) God is either not omnipotent, not omniscient, or not perfectly good.

The only way for a theist to solve this dilemma is by conceding that god does not have all the attributes normally ascribed to him. But by doing so, you would no longer be talking about a god. So I would say that the gods of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam almost certainly don't exist.
Const
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Const »

yeah nice i think i read that before ^^ but here i got to ask rafka for what happened exactly in the bible storys didnt eva ate an apple and god left the humans but send jesus for their evil and he died or sumthen but comes back in genesis ? im not sure i can understand u good mab but i wont say there is no god
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Kayz
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Kayz »

But Mablak, there is also the theory that he knows about all the evil and suffering, but doesn't want to intervene because religious people believe he created mankind, but he lets them do their own thing, so since all wars and suffering are man-made, it could be that he just doesn't care, but that also shows that praying won't help :P I don't find a single reason to believe in a god for me either, so I just don't care about religions, it's just interesting to see how many wars and terrorist actions are caused by religions. At least in Germany most people are tolerant and people won't throw stones at you for being a non-believer. I'm happy not to be born in the desert lands :)
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kukumber
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by kukumber »

After ten more pages this discussion will look same. Pretty much why I don't think there is any sense to discuss religion, that's the choice everyone makes for himself/herself. :wink:
Mablak
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Mablak »

Kayz wrote:But Mablak, there is also the theory that he knows about all the evil and suffering, but doesn't want to intervene because religious people believe he created mankind, but he lets them do their own thing, so since all wars and suffering are man-made, it could be that he just doesn't care, but that also shows that praying won't help :P I don't find a single reason to believe in a god for me either, so I just don't care about religions, it's just interesting to see how many wars and terrorist actions are caused by religions. At least in Germany most people are tolerant and people won't throw stones at you for being a non-believer. I'm happy not to be born in the desert lands :)
The 'free will' defense is easily refuted though. Volcanoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, plagues, and many natural disasters are not man-made, so no one could argue that the billions of lives we've lost to these things are due to our own actions. This is all suffering that, if an all-powerful god existed, would be suffering he inflicts upon us.

Yeah, on that note, Christopher Hitchens posed a two-part challenge to theists. First, to name one virtuous action that a religious person could perform that a non-believer couldn't. It's not possible, a non-believer can donate to charity, help other people, etc. Second, name an immoral action that only a religious person could perform. This is pretty easy, the homophobic community, the genital mutilation community, the suicide bombing community, etc, are all almost entirely religious, and engage in these activities for overtly religious reasons. Believing in absurdities really does lead people to commit atrocities.
kukumber wrote:After ten more pages this discussion will look same. Pretty much why I don't think there is any sense to discuss religion, that's the choice everyone makes for himself/herself. :wink:
Do you know why the atheist population has been on the rise for the last couple decades? It's because of the internet, and because of people having more conversations about religion. You never see a person's mind change over the course of a single conversation, because humans are stubborn. But over time, and after reflection, minds do in fact change. These conversations are necessary, because they're the only way to counter deep-rooted religious indoctrination.
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Kayz
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Kayz »

I agree with Mablak, for decades parents have taught their children traditions, and religion came with it. Most people I know who don't believe in god have sceptical parents either. Those discussions are important, religions are one of the core causes for hatred, intolerance and despise among humans and especially among different nations, but well, it already got better.

Btw: One recent example of Germany: There was a girl, twentysomething years old, got raped, and feared to be pregnant, she got into a catholic hospital and the nurses WERE NOT ALLOWED to give her the morning-after pill, because it would be immoral and "abortion". Seriously, the church wanted to let a rape victim have a child she didn't want.. In reaction to that many many people in Germany left the church, even some old people where the whole family was registered as catholic since ever. It's changing indeed.

article, found one in english: http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 78215.html
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Const
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Const »

rules of churhch and also the church itsself and their business is not gods business.
LittleBiatch
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by LittleBiatch »

2 days ago some jehovah's witnesses woke me up to ask me if I was interested in eternal life. Tight marketing.
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by zoky »

god?hmmm that guy take care about us,ets right?
so maybe he read this and i will ask one simply question
why the fuck did U make me this?i cant walk,dont have money to have rly rly nice life,etc...i didnt make some bad stuff in history of my life,ut still i am in rly shity situation....
but for exemple my "friend",use drugs,steal from hosues,sell drugs.....so be care full now mr. GOD car has hit him,u know what he is fine....4yrs ago train hit him uj know what he is fine,last year he crash with a bike and look he is fine....
so my question is....mr.god why u save drug dealer,thief,etc and punish guy who like sport,who had run miles and miles,who teach young kids how to play football,etc...?
mr.god i quess u sux
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Tomek
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Re: Bible and only Bible as word of God

Post by Tomek »

I belive in Ufo, because i saw it few times.. and one time it was so close to me..this is my 'god'
I watched a worm crawl along the edge of a straight razor.It's my dream,nightmare.Crawling,slithering along the edge of a straight razor,and surviving
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