wkWormOrder!

Discussion and information related to the open Intermediate league
Kilobyte
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wkWormOrder!

Post by Kilobyte »

Hi folks,

I've recently became aware of wkWormOrder. I barely read about it, and if I'm right, it can reveal the team order of your opponent.
I don't have to explain: if somebody is a bit experienced in Intermediate, he realizes that it foundamentally shakes the game! But we need to think about the rules, the future: not only this WK module should be banned, maybe WormKit itself should be banned.
Ideas, thoughs?
"Unique: if we dont know him he's a noob. Well, if I dont know some1 I know he's noob"
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Korydex
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Korydex »

It only reveals your own team order afaik
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Albus
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Albus »

wkWormOrder can be used in the league if both players agree right? It would be the same thing for the two players to agree to use the teams with the names of the worms as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. By the way, the module sends a message in the chat if you activate it to see the sequence of the opponent's team order.

https://worms2d.info/WkWormOrder
WormKit module that appends worm order numbers to their names and allows randomizing the worm order within the team in multiplayer games.
Features
Worms belonging to you have their numbers displayed. During replay playback all worms have their numbers displayed. The displayed format is customizable in .ini with {name} and {number} tags.
To enable displaying order of all worms, use /order command in game chat. Usage of this feature should be discussed with other players beforehand.
In multiplayer games the worm order within your team can be scrambled. The order is scrambled every time you add the team to the round roster. To enable this feature set: ScrambleWormOrder = 1
Team name bars can have their owner name displayed. The displayed format is customizable with {name}, {owner} and {hp} (sum of HP of all worms within the team) tags. To enable this feature set: TeamNameShowOwner = 1 or use /owner command in game chat.
Senator
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Senator »

This module shows your opponent's worm order if you type /order in the game chat. A notification appears that the feature is enabled.

I just found out that a notification does not appear if you have the module enabled so that you see your own worm order only. That's bad news.
Albus
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Albus »

I don't see a problem with the module show the sequence of your own team for you. The only problem that can arise in this regard is what you mentioned on TUS: create gibberish/blank worm names and use this module, so you can confuse the enemy and still know the sequence of your team. But I think gibberish/blank worm names should be prohibited.
Senator
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Senator »

Well it still helps a bit because you don't need to memorize your own worm order each time you change your worm names.
Albus
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Albus »

Having to memorize your own team I don't think it should be a player's obligation. I think the game should make this information available. This way, players would be more free to create new teams etc., and not have to keep memorizing them all the time. But this is just my opinion.
Kilobyte
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Kilobyte »

Albus wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:42 pmBut I think gibberish worm names should be prohibited.
! :D :D

Poor Russian players....
"Unique: if we dont know him he's a noob. Well, if I dont know some1 I know he's noob"
Albus
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Albus »

Kilobyte wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:09 pm
Albus wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:42 pmBut I think gibberish worm names should be prohibited.
! :D :D

Poor Russian players....
:oops:

:lol:
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Korydex
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Korydex »

It's very bad news that the module works this way. I thought it only showed your own order when you used the command and the message appeared. Which is still important, because someone could have empty worm names and still know the order. Showing opponents order is simply cheating.
That module should only be allowed if both players agree or banned imo.
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Dario
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Dario »

Albus wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:59 pm Having to memorize your own team I don't think it should be a player's obligation. I think the game should make this information available. This way, players would be more free to create new teams etc., and not have to keep memorizing them all the time. But this is just my opinion.
It's not an obligation, it's a skill you used to have to learn if you wanted to take advantage of knowing your own worms order.

Edit:
So, in our last two games you randomized your worms order, didn't go through the trouble of memorizing your own worm names and you were still able to see their order as numbers appended to their names while I could only see the raw names?, names that I need to write down and memorize between round and round while you simply see the numbers on them. Sorry but that is just too much, if you wanna see your worms with numbers appended to their name, then your opponent should be able to see them too.

You used to complain about gibberish names, but with gibberish names both players see the same names.
Albus
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Albus »

Dario wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:09 pm It's not an obligation, it's a skill you used to have to learn if you wanted to take advantage of knowing your own worms order.
I don’t see any skill in memorize 8 worm names. But ok if you think different.

Dario wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:09 pm So, in our last two games you randomized your worms order, didn't go through the trouble of memorizing your own worm names and you were still able to see their order as numbers appended to their names while I could only see the raw names?
I thought your problem was with me seeing YOUR team order and you don't see mine. But if you think the results were unfair, delete the games.
Albus
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Albus »

People who use papers etc. as rulers on the screen, should tell the opponent they are doing this? If they don't tell this, and don't give the person the right to choose to do the same or don't play with you because of that, it might be considered an unfair advantage. Rafka, for example, told me he doesn't use these things, so using it against Rafka might be considered unfair.

I didn't tell you I used the module to see only my team order because I thought you knew this (https://worms2d.info/WkWormOrder) and since no rule has been created prohibiting the use of the module in this way whithout telling the opponent, I thought that was no big deal.

Did any player, besides Dario, felt harmed? Please say here and we can void the games played.

One last thing, if we assume that we need to tell everything that we use (and might not be used by the opponent as well) and which can be considered unfair by him, maybe we should, before the game, say absolutely everything we use that can be considered an unfair advantage by the oponnent. This can include many things, including computer peripheral with extra features. Another example, in addition to what I gave above, would be software, applications etc., to count utilities (those who only use memory may consider it an unfair advantage).
Rudolf289
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Rudolf289 »

Kilobyte wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:45 pm not only this WK module should be banned, maybe WormKit itself should be banned.
If you can't detect cheating then it's pointless to ban any modules or programs.
Albus
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Re: wkWormOrder!

Post by Albus »

Rudolf289 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:10 pm
Kilobyte wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:45 pm not only this WK module should be banned, maybe WormKit itself should be banned.
If you can't detect cheating then it's pointless to ban any modules or programs.
The ban only reaches people who, like me, publicly say that uses it. The real cheaters, who use it in secret, will continue using it and other private modules or programs that we can't even know if exist, until, god knows when, there is an effective way to detect cheaters in the game.
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